Under different circumstances it would've been a lot different. That kid was born with some sort of brain injury. KleboldI started reading the Columbine book, how does he try to explain Klebold? This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. 26 March 2017. Indeed, up until he died, he had been going to school, working a part-time job, hanging out with his friends, planning for college all behaviors of a normal teenager. Although in their rantings, they seemed to have special hatred for fags, and various other epithets for minorities that I don't even like to write, let alone speak. This is my story | Sue Klebold, (Video) Sue Klebold: My life as the mother of a Columbine killer (EXCLUSIVE) - BBC Newsnight, (Video) Chris Morris friend of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, (Video) COLUMBINE SHOOTER: DYLAN KLEBOLD'S MOTHER GIVES FIRST TV INTERVIEW ! It is also true that environmental stimuli can make the difference between a kid with "problems" and a kid who becomes a "monster." I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. Dylan was also drinking at the end of his life, likely complicating his mental health issues, though had once said that marijuana was a waste of time and so perhaps wasnt involved in drugs. I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. There was a creepy thread started by a sociopathic OP a couple of weeks ago where this was discussed. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. We are not there yet. They were not the mainstream group. Another migrant here from the other Columbine thread who's reading Cullen's book--. Brown can . R77, there are people who don't have feelings. I can't find any photos of Eric's older brother, Kevin. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. Let's set aside the pipe bomb issue and Eric's scrapes with the law for a moment and ask why they weren't more involved with their kid. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". This page is focused on the tragedy as well as its perpetrators so we can try to better understand the psychology and motives behind this horrific event. My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the gunman, had been bullied for several years prior to the massacre. Jesus, what a loathsome pair of people. It's far more complicated than a matter of discipline. Planning? If there is a hell, they are there, burning. They've got a son who's very bright and makes good grades, yet he hasn't applied to college and has made only a half-assed attempt to enlist in the Marines (I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter). But she focuses greatly on the lead-up to that day, hoping to shed light on what happened to her son in order to help someone else see signs in their own child while they still have a chance to intervene. I think he was broken over the loss of his son, and wants to remember the boy Dylan was and not the murder he became? Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . Eric's parents were both born in Colorado but while his father Wayne Harris was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne held 11 different positions at six different bases in Ohio . Sorry if I can't be interested in something without arousing your ire. The owner (a woman) had no qualms about going up to people with a screaming child and saying "You need to take ze child out to ze car vare he can calm down. He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised.. He started getting in trouble, and complained of how certain groups of kids were ruthless bullies, yet the school did nothing to stop them. Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. I shudder to think what kind of excuses you make for YOUR spawn's horrific behavior, R62. I seem to remember them being called "fag.". Psycrotrenic, charter member of the International Reb&Vodka fan club. For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. In this difficult, jarring talk, Klebold explores the intersection between mental health and violence . Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. Also when I was growing up, people had no qualms about calling a parent and saying "Your little boy Johnny said something really awful to my son today." or "Your little Janey slapped Susey today and she needs to stop doing that." I was in high school at the time. It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. Sorry. Several phone callers to the Jewish News have . The attack on Columbine is almost a prototypical school shooting, but one way in which it stands out is that it was committed by two people together. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. "In the very . As a reporter scribbled, Hooker reconsidered. Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A8. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. Dylan Klebold along with his friend, Eric Harris, committed the Columbine High School massacre 17 years ago. Dave Cullen, in a radio interview that I've been listening to, is very quick to point out that psychopathy doesn't equate automatically with murder. Kids hide things. Don't believe me? How are parents supposed to know everything that goes on in their children's minds? (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. Any pix of the monster creators? I can't help it. The deadliest school shooting in the United States was the Virginia Tech massacre, with 33 fatalities and 23 injuries. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser. (They said no.) I kind of admire that. Ordinary, normal people who genuinely loved their son. "American Tragedy" premieres at the Boston Film Festival on Thursday at 7 p.m. After-hours phone calls to Times officials were not returned, and Brooks did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . Dylan also writes in his journal that. LITTLETON, Colo. Just 15 people attended the funeral of Columbine High School killer Dylan Klebold on Saturday two ministers, eleven mourners and two anguished parents wondering where they'd gone . They are particularly good at it. The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry, all right. Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, . Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. And although there was never anything we could do to put him away, so to speak, before he hurt someone, my mother would *never* claim in an aftermath that she had no idea of his mental state or his comings and goings or that she didn't know what made him that way. However, it is my understanding from reviews that he contends the boys actually had a circle of friends and were, in fact, popular within that group. Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack. The giant whine of "I did my beeeeest!" Now, she spends her time advocating for suicide prevention and mental health services. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. (p. 311-312) Synthesizing the many factors, its argued that most school shooters have a history of social rejection, along with either psychological problems, an interest in weapons, and/or a fascination with death (p. 314). When he heard reports of gunmen in trench coats rampaging through Columbine High, it's reported, that Thomas Klebold (the father of Dylan) contacted authorities, because he suspected his son might be involved and offered his help as a negotiator.. I can't remember. Just as the son's evil made people go back and re-evaluate his dad, discovering examples like the time Poppy sabotaged his opponent's sail boat the night before the race; one wonders if one should investigate more closely the dealings of the Harrises. Harris was excelling in classes in the year leading up to the murders. I was just worried Dylan was unhappy (p. 227). Harris was a sociopath. Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. By. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. 17 year old son of Mr. Thomas Klebold (then 52) and Mrs. Susan (Yassenoff) Klebold (then 50), younger brother to Byron. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. She and the father lectured him, took away . I think those that readily (and outrightly) blame the parents are inclined to do so as to perpetuate some aspect of control, otherwise the shear nature of the case becomes too frightening. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. They are rare. As a literature teacher, symbolism is not lost on me. : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. The two would . ", Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of. I believe it was either a sibling or playmates. Describes how eric harris and dylan klebold approach columbine high school, in jefferson county, colorado. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images Asking how instead of why allows us to frame the descent into self-destructive behavior as the process that it is. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". Good thing I did because Dylan hasn't exactly risen to a level of responsibility in my absence. And it wasnx92t because they werenx92t around. But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! . A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. And now she won't show it. Dylan has been so reclusive. You're a judgmental twat, r14. The Klebolds said their son was set off by the toxic culture of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated. We are not there yet. He overslept and missed a class and was sleeping when I got home. Neither seemed to know where or with whom he was most of the time. No scientist knows this absolutely. They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. 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The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. Bartol, C. R., & Bartol, A. M. (2017). . Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. His grades fell to average. It wasnt deemed something that needed further attention. 'Toxic culture' blamedHe was hopeless. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. In this case, the other shooter played a pivotal role in stoking Dylans rage and allowing him to break out of his own passivity and actually take steps toward the suicide he craved. As we ourselves have often concluded in class, it seems Sue also came to the understanding that the massacre was the culmination of a number of different factors for Dylan, none of which on their own would have created such an act. Yesterday there was a girl in her backyard screaming like an insane person at somebody or something. There are several bags on the floor, including a large maroon one. See? armed with one 10-shot hi-point model 995 carbine rifle, one intratec ab-10 (tec-9) pistol, two savage 12-gauge shotguns, and as many as . Boston: Pearson. Eric Harris was quite the hottie, I don't understand why he had to go and kill himself. What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? I'm with VoTN on this one. Dylan Klebold's father contacted authorities, saying the boy might be involved and offering to help, Jefferson County District Attorney Dave . 18 year old son of Wayne Nelson Harris and Katherine (Kathy) Ann [Pool] Harris. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. Hey mom, gotta go Tom isnt even included in the insincere goodbye. I also agree with R7. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are once more in the family room of the Harris home. The family subsequently moved to Littleton CO in 1993, and Wayne Harris took a job at FlightSafety Services in Englewood CO, a company rumored to work closely . I hated her for a few years but its not a clear depiction of the totality of our relationship. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. Great job! Eric is filming. Sue Klebold with son Dylan in 1985. Credit: Sue Klebold via Penguin/Random House Tall, slim and graceful (her younger son was a gangly 193 centimetres tall), she is given to direct eye contact . However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently. In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. His parents didnt yet know to monitor his internet usage. Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylan's best friend. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris opened fire at the suburban Denver school on April 20, 1999, killing 13 people before taking their own lives. With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. He was kind, gentle, smart, and happy. End of story. Do you think Dylans dad could embarrass him as a child in front of other people or humiliate him in other ways that could result in Dylans low self esteem or was Dylan naturally shy? It's still about management. Brooks said the Klebolds agreed to the interview after an exchange of e-mails initiated by Tom Klebold, who was angered by Brooks April 24 column. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. Posted 3 years ago Younger brother to Kevin Harris (21 at the time). If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters. Sue Klebold. We relate. It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. on Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. ", "If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters.". Reb". VOTN needs to get a clue. People that want to pretend that the parents were just innocent distant bystanders who had no responsibility for anything that happened are repulsive. Victim's parents reactThe Klebolds comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims parents. It was very easy to read despite being a difficult topic. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebold's memoir A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters.While I was able to share the manner by which she communicated her ideas and insights, I wasn't able to . i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. I wonder if there was any homosex between those two. The second of the Columbine killers, Dylan Klebold was a "born genius" who, despite a sensitive disposition, experienced explosions of rage (most often brought on by failure or humiliation,) suicidal tendencies, a disdain for the "zombie"-like human race, and a suggestibility upon which the psychopathic . Dylan was behaving differently, getting in more trouble, not always acting like himself. He felt a need to be in control. Guns and weapons? The parents of Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold have often been portrayed as disengaged from the lives of their sons and unaware of the dark paths lying ahead. After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . Age : 36. Bull fucking shit. I guess it's my generation. His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). OP, I agree with you. Klebold was depressed and fell under Harris's influence. Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting. By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. You have no right to disrupt someone else's place of business. [quote]He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. Very exciting though, the progress we've made. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. Press J to jump to the feed. It would be comforting to think otherwise. On April 20, 1999, two teenage gunmen kill 13 people in a shooting spree at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, south of Denver. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. IIRC, they both had psychiatric attention. When someone is in a store, that is not their own private property. At the beginning, when he writes about the good things in his life, he mentions his parents. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. I'm just thinking of the argument Sue mentioned in her book where Tom was insisting that Dylan remove his baseball hat before they went for breakfast (during their visit to Arizona State University). While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. By his junior and senior years, Dylans parents knew something was wrong. Plus the drug industry makes a profit. He became more paranoid, forcing them all to flee a McDonalds because he believed a group of teens on the other side of the store were laughing at him. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." There was a documentary on Netflix or somewhere in which she t. Susan Francis Klebold was born on March 25, 1949, to Milton Yassenoff and Charlotte Yassenoff. In a video-diary-style recording, Dylan stated his parents had been good to him. How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? additionally, dylan was definitely naturally shy. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. Eric Harris's father (Wayne Harris) was a former Air Force pilot stationed at Plattsburgh AFB in New York, rumored to be linked to covert operations such as mind control. When I was in high school, i was friends with a guy who very well could have done what those kids did. On April 20, 1999, when Sue Klebold heard about a shooting incident at Columbine High School, her thoughts immediately turned to her 17-year-old son, Dylan, who was a senior there. ", Dylan: (sticks his face in the camera) "Goodbye. Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Eric Harris was a garden variety psychopath, nothing very interesting about him. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Good-bye. They weren't bullied, and they weren't outcasts; all of that came from the non-stop media echo chamber that followed the events. We had to get up at 4:00 AM to be there by 6:00. They cry innocence and ignorance, when I know they were anything BUT. COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. This is true. Klebold, S. (2016). The Klebolds attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. here are some tidbits that might help you with the question. I had to fight for their basic rights because allegedly educated teachers thought things like "retards are dangerous" and "retards should be kept away from the good kids". Is that correct? "I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy.". Of course, if the Klebolds and Harrises said they were ready to talk to the media, you can be sure they'd all scramble for the exclusive. His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. Other way around. Dylan, Cullen writes, was depressed. . YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! On August 30, 2006 Columbine obsessed 18 year old Alvaro Castillo would murder his father with a sawed off Mossberg 500 shotgun at their home and then drive to a local high school and open fire. They always have, and unless we can change it (which might be very "Pandora") they always will. Susan insists, "I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness." All the bullying stuff is bullshit. Tom and I failed to recognize these conditions and to curtail the influences violent entertainment, his friendship with Eric that exacerbated them. . Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. Criminal behavior: a psychological approach. How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy? Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris had openly admired Adolf Hitler. In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.. And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? I didnt hear it.. (They werent.) ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". Dylan Klebold Character Analysis. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. Its hard to tell. He injured 2 students before his gun jammed and he was arrested. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. Sue is from a prominent Jewish community . When you think about it, in his journals he didn't have too much positive to say across the board. When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? She is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre that occurred on April 20, 1999. Wayne & Kathy Harris are the parents of infamous Columbine HS shooter, Eric Harris. Teachers have no training in mental disorders or warning signs. You're far too stupid to ever see that though. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. . Dylan adds that they can have his things as well. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. You teach them to recognize triggers that exacerbate symptoms. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. Dylan Klebold, along with Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 20 at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. . Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment. Are any of Robert Hare's books of interest, if you know?
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